tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post722515490342989135..comments2024-03-27T20:45:01.098-04:00Comments on Beyond Salmon: To cook or not to cook (roux vs. beurre manié)Helenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12271344371852988017noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-57549009223595224372024-02-03T18:27:32.702-05:002024-02-03T18:27:32.702-05:00The funny thing is that the flour isn't uncook...The funny thing is that the flour isn't uncooked, or at least not totally, because you're supposed to simmer the sauce more after you add it. You just won't get thetoasty flavor that comes with darker rouxs, but it's not a replacement for dark roux anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-16364425218932881182022-09-26T00:43:31.755-04:002022-09-26T00:43:31.755-04:00Loved this!
old thread maybe...but always relevant...Loved this!<br />old thread maybe...but always relevant imho.<br />After all, we have all been eating all of our lives, since the dawn of mankind!<br />Older single male, having to learn to cook for himself a long time ago, I would just cook longer when the sauce(gravy) was too thin, in the hopes of reducing the water content, the results were usually fine as I spiced the dish liberally.<br />I always wanted a simple method of thickening to add that "je ne sais quoi" to the dish I was preparing. <br />I've just finished reading some 20+ articles on beurre manie, and so I can see how well it would work for me, without even trying it.<br />In the next few days, I will test this method, and might even report back here to comment on it!<br />Thanks to the original poster!<br />Andre<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-29408248149682442662022-09-13T22:45:14.544-04:002022-09-13T22:45:14.544-04:00Came across this post today because I'd never ...Came across this post today because I'd never heard of a Buerre Manie. My grandmother, from Louisiana, always used a roux and taught me to make them in every shade and what each one was for! Great comments here from everyone and 'Unknown', I especially appreciated your comments about the flour to fat ratios for different roux, which reflects what I was taught. Next time I'm making a white sauce, I'll give the buerre manie a try-thanks. :-)Moonwillow713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-17837565882531690232022-07-03T20:49:06.664-04:002022-07-03T20:49:06.664-04:00In my experience, nasty flour taste comes from a s...In my experience, nasty flour taste comes from a slurry if you do not heat the sauce. Also there is no reason that melted butter or microwaved (partially melted partially softened) butter cannot be used in a Beurre manié it comes out fine.<br /><br />(PS you can also use olive oil but obviously it is not Beurre manié at that point but olive oil manie)DR JSMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14453002941669901130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-30236564891049772432022-07-03T02:38:50.644-04:002022-07-03T02:38:50.644-04:00I agree with all of your science, because I use bo...I agree with all of your science, because I use both. What you didn’t try, was reheating the two sauces. There you will find a marked difference. The beurre manié will break and the roux will not. Just an fyi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-43007145764431788412022-04-29T21:45:24.664-04:002022-04-29T21:45:24.664-04:00What about adding hot liquids to roux? I never hav...What about adding hot liquids to roux? I never have...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-59949473293528376642022-01-18T19:54:10.859-05:002022-01-18T19:54:10.859-05:00I have been cooking for 40+ years, and began thick...I have been cooking for 40+ years, and began thickening sauces with a cornstarch/water mixture, or an Arrowroot/water mixture. Arrowroot makes a more glistening sauce and won't make it opaque if for example you want a clear or translucent sauce.<br /><br />Living in France in my mid-twenties I encountered a slew or sloux same pronunciation (not French by the way but something an ex-pat chef buddy of mine use when in a rush) and yes, you guessed it: Flour and water. Continuing to live and cook in France for 5 years and studying at Cordon Bleu & Lavarenne I learned a bit more about, reduction thickening, of course the combined sauces, demi glacé (if you think about it, gelatin thickened and a reduction sauce) among other things and the beurre manié which I use on occasion.<br /><br />I often use one of my liquid ingredients instead of water, wine or stock that is part of the sauce being made or the soup/stew.<br /><br />Something I didn't see mentioned but it may have been is that the facility of a Beurre Manié is in the fact that when thickening any amount of liquid you can add little buttons of it at a time and more easily control the thickening to the point you desire. Roux's or slurries are less easy to control the amounts, though a controlled drizzle is possible I've on occasion just put in too much.<br /><br />Certain dishes are just better with a roux, gumbo, and crawfish etouffé to name a couple and the debates on whether to use a blonde roux, a tan roux, a red roux or a dark roux are never ending! Just remember, the darker your roux the less thickening it can do, and you'll need on average anywhere from 20-50% more flour and of course the corresponding oil or butter, between the various stages of cooking, blonde to dark. A dark roux will easily take twice the amount of flour as a blonde or tan one.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06784409431437118615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-37030380846729561772021-11-04T10:59:59.950-04:002021-11-04T10:59:59.950-04:00Totally get that this is a really old thread, but ...Totally get that this is a really old thread, but still wanted to comment. Love the experiment! In my house we keep gluten free flour (ie Bob's 1-to-1) on hand just for thickening. It thickens so much better than regular flour and doesn't have to cook out the "flour taste". If you're really in a hurry, you can pull out your hand blender and smooth out all the lumps in a measuring cup before adding it to your pot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-22029996655546481382021-10-12T22:25:33.905-04:002021-10-12T22:25:33.905-04:00Thank you for the clarity. Im case not yet done, a...Thank you for the clarity. Im case not yet done, a comparo of arrowroot, potato, corn and other starches would be instructive. Bon appetit.N D Plumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15770025718145526220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-81841184915295899562021-09-22T19:27:09.098-04:002021-09-22T19:27:09.098-04:00I was wondering! Thank you. Chef Keller, one of th...I was wondering! Thank you. Chef Keller, one of the best in America, uses beurre manie instead of roux for all the recipes in his per se cookbook. It seems he agrees!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06452057926957816303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-27853649891112025932021-07-29T09:35:23.406-04:002021-07-29T09:35:23.406-04:00You made me laugh. This was a fun read. You made me laugh. This was a fun read. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12135825130820465878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-19134161163615862662015-09-26T16:15:44.534-04:002015-09-26T16:15:44.534-04:00Brown roux used in gambo is a completely different...Brown roux used in gambo is a completely different matter. It's role is not just thickening, but flavoring the dish. If the goal is just to thicken a sauce that will be served soon and not saved for the next day, beurre manie works just fine and is faster and easier to work with. The only down side is that if the sauce is saved for the next day, it could thin out a bit, but that's rarely the use case I am dealing with.Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12271344371852988017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-66766578646920709682015-09-26T13:20:00.615-04:002015-09-26T13:20:00.615-04:00Interesting conversation. I am a chef for the pas...Interesting conversation. I am a chef for the past 17 years and had the benefit of working in New Orleans, the home of a dark roux. In this moment i am tipping my hand because i have experienced great rouxs and the love of cooking. You yourself have tipped you hand by saying that you only did beurre manie before. I feel by reading into it that this experiment was done to prove that beurre mane was better. They both have different applications. If you are making a 5 hour gumbo, please use roux. If you are finishing a simple cream or stock sauce for your two pieces of white fish at 8:30 at night for you and your lover, by all means please use a beurre manie. One does not have to be better than the other of from a professional standpoint, to hear someone say beurre manie "wins" over a roux, discredits your cooking knowledge and aptitude from a glance. Great post, great comments. Bonne Chance Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-85746602896791920262014-05-24T20:14:38.510-04:002014-05-24T20:14:38.510-04:00Forget the flour. Use corn starch. works great. do...Forget the flour. Use corn starch. works great. doesn't break down. no flour taste. been doing it for years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-61994300326035296982014-01-12T19:14:24.659-05:002014-01-12T19:14:24.659-05:00Thanks for your experiment. Saves me the time and ...Thanks for your experiment. Saves me the time and answers my very same question as yours. Much appreciated! :-) ..... Roux's retired in my kitchen from now on! Aidan Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-58567187273942000412013-11-30T14:00:57.474-05:002013-11-30T14:00:57.474-05:00If you want to reduce your stock or drippings befo...If you want to reduce your stock or drippings before adding them to the roux, you need a second pan. Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12271344371852988017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-18722310388646526882013-11-30T13:58:26.696-05:002013-11-30T13:58:26.696-05:00I don't get the need for a second pan. I have ...I don't get the need for a second pan. I have always just made my room in the pan I'm making the sauce in. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-85106299160599111762013-10-15T17:27:18.212-04:002013-10-15T17:27:18.212-04:00About that bad flour taste: But remember, with all...About that bad flour taste: But remember, with all due respect, Julia Child is the one who recommended blanching bacon to rid it of that awful salty, smoky flavor. <br /><br />TimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-28785830190623577942013-05-02T02:23:23.159-04:002013-05-02T02:23:23.159-04:00Good thing someone made an experiment and share on...Good thing someone made an experiment and share on this site. It was helpful now I truly understand the difference between the 2 thickening agent and may help me on my upcoming exam in culinary. :)Venusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-41391996066872829732010-07-07T17:38:35.332-04:002010-07-07T17:38:35.332-04:00I realize this discussion is old, but other folks ...I realize this discussion is old, but other folks had a similar discussion on a different website, and there was some good info<br />http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/51472/beurre-manie-questionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-75401053853633439272009-11-18T04:25:31.910-05:002009-11-18T04:25:31.910-05:00Thanks. And cooking a blonde roux vs. a beurre ma...Thanks. And cooking a blonde roux vs. a beurre manie is comparing apples to apples. Thanks for the wonderful insight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-4063089487784614332009-11-16T09:47:19.610-05:002009-11-16T09:47:19.610-05:00Hi there,
I agree that Cajun roux might be tricky...Hi there,<br /><br />I agree that Cajun roux might be tricky to make and have absolutely no expertise in that cuisine. Since my blog is mostly about european cooking, I was talking about what most european cuisines mean by a roux, which is blond roux. Comparing a brown roux to beurre manie is like comparing apples and oranges. That would be really silly. <br /><br />Cheers,<br />-HelenHelenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12271344371852988017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-45805838320950970532009-11-16T02:31:50.774-05:002009-11-16T02:31:50.774-05:00Hi there,
Nice post. However, there's a flaw...Hi there,<br /><br />Nice post. However, there's a flaw here that I think you and your commenters are making.<br /><br />It is true that a roux is a simple method of combining fat and flour. However, when I (and most people, I think) hear "roux," we think of the long-cooked fat/flour combination that is essential to many Cajun and Creole dishes.<br /><br />You don't think that way, of course. You are looking at roux as something to merely thicken another substance. This is borne out by your statement:<br /><br />"Making roux is one of those culinary rites of passage, which I found strange because I thickened sauces happily for years with no roux."<br /><br />So do you want to know why it is a rite of passage? It's because cooking a darker roux (in a pan, not in the oven) actually does take some patience, skill, and fearlessness. It's easy to burn, requires almost constant attention and exact heat adjustments, and will leave a permanent, nasty scar if you make a mistake.<br /><br />Of course, those types of roux are not used for thickening -- they are used for color and, most important, flavor.<br /><br />If you're just talking about mashing up flour and butter raw, or mashing and then just swishing around in a pan for a few minutes -- well, that's minor league, IMHO. That's cool, though -- your post was all about thickening.<br /><br />But no, that's not a rite of passage, so I would caution you against being too dismissive.<br /><br />Go make a real roux -- bordering on the color of chocolate syrup -- without burning it. Let us know how that goes.<br /><br />Because THAT is the rite of passage. ;)<br /><br />Keep up the great work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-28406530828111964062009-11-11T14:44:37.887-05:002009-11-11T14:44:37.887-05:00Hi guys,
I am so glad this topic has generated su...Hi guys,<br /><br />I am so glad this topic has generated such a lovely discussion. Let me address a couple of things. First of all, I only had one taster: me :) To do a proper experiment, you'd need way more testers, particularly since taste is a very personal thing. Second of all, there are many problems that can result in the nasty raw-flour taste. One is not getting flour to dissolve well in liquid. If you end up with lumps (even tiny ones), it will taste icky and floury. Another problem is using too much roux or beurre manie. My sauces tend to be on the runny side, but for my experiment, I used the proportions normally used for veloute and bechamel (1 Tbsp butter - 1 Tbsp flour - 2/3 cup liquid). <br /><br />Anyway, to make a long story short, you need to make sure you use whatever thickener you decide on properly and take my experiment with a grain of salt. Try setting up your own experiment to decide for yourself. It only takes 30 minutes or so.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />-HelenHelenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12271344371852988017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17422713.post-86785825574874059222009-11-11T10:20:51.714-05:002009-11-11T10:20:51.714-05:00Er, that should be FAT content of the butter. Not...Er, that should be FAT content of the butter. Not enough coffee yet!<br /><br />MGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com